How Phones Are Making Us More Lonely and Addicted | Meredith David, PhD

Studies mentioned in this episode, in order of mention: 

Roberts, J. A., & David, M. E. (2016). My life has become a major distraction from my cell phone: Partner phubbing and relationship satisfaction among romantic partners. Computers in Human Behavior, 54, 134–141. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.chb.2015.07.058

Roberts, J. A., Young, P. D., & David, M. E. (2025). The Epidemic of Loneliness: A 9-Year Longitudinal Study of the Impact of Passive and Active Social Media Use on Loneliness. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 0(0). https://doi.org/10.1177/01461672241295870 

Roberts, J. A., & David, M. E. (2020). The social media party: Fear of missing out (FoMO), social media intensity, connection, and well-being. International Journal of Human-Computer Interaction, 36(4), 386–392. https://doi.org/10.1080/10447318.2019.1646517

Capraro, V., L. Globig, Z. Rausch, et al. (2025). A Consensus Statement on Potential Negative Impacts of Smartphone and Social Media Use on Adolescent Mental Health. Seton Hall Law School Legal Studies Research Forthcoming. https://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.5256747 

Radesky, J., Weeks, H.M., Schaller, A., Robb, M., Mann, S., and Lenhart, A. (2023). Constant Companion:  A Week in the Life of a Young Person’s  Smartphone Use. Common Sense Media. https://www.commonsensemedia.org/research/constant-companion-a-week-in-the-life-of-a-young-persons-smartphone-use 

Roberts, J. A., & David, M. E. (2025). Technology Affordances, Social Media Engagement, and Social Media Addiction: An Investigation of TikTok, Instagram Reels, and YouTube Shorts. Cyberpsychology, behavior and social networking, 28(5), 318–325. https://doi.org/10.1089/cyber.2024.0338

Allyn, B., Goodman, S., & Kerr, D. (2024, October 16). Inside the TikTok documents: Stripping teens and boosting ‘attractive’ people. NPR. https://www.npr.org/2024/10/12/g-s1-28040/teens-tiktok-addiction-lawsuit-investigation-documents

David, M. E., & Roberts, J. A. (2024). TikTok Brain: An Investigation of Short-Form Video Use, Self-Control, and Phubbing. Social Science Computer Review, 43(6), 1292-1305. https://doi.org/10.1177/08944393241279422

 Roberts, J. A., & David, M. E. (2020). Boss phubbing, trust, job satisfaction and employee performance. Personality and Individual Differences, 155. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.paid.2019.109702

[Kris Perry]: Welcome to the Screen Deep podcast, where we go on deep dives with experts in the field to decode young brains and behavior in a digital world. I’m Kris Perry, Executive Director of Children and Screens. 

Today I’m joined by Dr. Meredith David, Associate Professor of Marketing at Baylor University’s Hankamer School of Business. Dr. David’s work sits at the intersection of marketing and psychology, focusing on how our phones and social platforms shape connection, attention, and wellbeing. Her research on “phubbing” – also known as “phone-snubbing” – FOMO, loneliness, and short form video has been featured by ABC News, The Wall Street Journal, Time, and others. Meredith, welcome to Screen Deep.

[Dr. Meredith David]: Thank you for having me.

[Kris Perry]: So much of your work resides at that intersection of individual psychology and behavior and how it’s affected by interactions with technology. You’ve published research on everything from conflicts about cell phone use and adult relationships to the impacts of phone and social media use on mental health and short form video addiction. Tell me, how did you come to focus on how today’s technologies are affecting us psychologically?

[Dr. Meredith David]: I started out wanting to just study how our consumption behaviors impact our well-being and the well-being of those around us. And then just looking around these days, no matter where you go, even if you’re at a restaurant or if you’re shopping in a mall or if you’re on an airplane, when you look around, so many people are so consumed by technology, and they’re consumed by their phones. So I started looking at, what are the implications of being consumed by our smartphones? What are the implications of it not only for our own well-being, but also for the well-being of those that are around us?

[Kris Perry]: I am struck by the very same observation almost every time I go anywhere, especially since I started working at the Institute. I want to ask you more about how your work at looking at how technology, particularly smartphone use, impacts connection and relationships. So, what have you been finding out about the relational impacts of cell phone use?

[Dr. Meredith David]: One of the first set of studies that I did was on the impact of using our smartphones in the presence of others, and specifically in the presence of our romantic partners. So there’s so many instances when we might be spending time with our partner, but yet we’re distracted by our cell phones. 

So you can observe this even when you go out to eat in a restaurant. You look around – and it sounds crazy but it’s the reality of the situation. You look around and people aren’t actually talking to whoever they’re with at the table, but a lot of times the majority of people are distracted and they’re looking down at their phones. 

So I started researching, what are the implications of being distracted by your phone while you’re spending time face to face with a significant other? And the implications are not good. So, the way that it makes other people feel when we’re distracted by our phone – so we’re not paying attention to them, but instead we’re paying attention to our phone – it makes us feel as if we’re not important to whoever it is that we’re with. And whatever they have on their phone is more important than us. 

And as you can imagine, and our data has supported, the fact that these distractions can create conflict in relationships such that the individual who is sitting there looking at his or her partner as they’re just staring at their phone, that person starts to wonder, you know, “What’s going on on that phone?” and it can create conflict and it also reduces one’s satisfaction in the relationship with that partner.

[Kris Perry]: I mean, it’s actually kind of a paradox, right? That you go to the trouble of finding time to be with somebody that’s really important to you, and within a short amount of time, one or both of you are on your phone, and it may not even be that clear that you’re engaging in an interaction with your phone that is taking away from this in-person interaction you were trying so hard to have. And you talked about how you researched it – and I think other people have researched phubbing, as well – and you mentioned that it can be frustrating or can be upsetting, but what are some of the other findings or impacts of phubbing and phone use in the presence of a significant other?

[Dr. Meredith David]: So it not only can create conflict in the relationship and lower one’s satisfaction in the relationship, but we also have evidence suggesting that it can increase one’s feelings of depression and anxiety. So when they’re spending time in person with someone else who is distracted by the phone, we feel less important than whatever’s on that phone. And eventually, it makes us feel more anxious and experience more feelings of depression.

[Kris Perry]: It makes a lot of sense. Much of what we talk about at the Institute is the impact of phubbing or technoference on the relationships between parents and kids. And that many times, when kids are asked what’s hard about putting their phone down, is they’ll say, “Well, my mom or my dad,” or, “They’re on their phone. And it makes me feel lonely or upset. So I’m picking up my phone.” And here you’re studying adults having the very same reaction and bringing up feelings of depression, which is a pretty serious problem. I mean, we know there’s a high incidence of depression and anxiety among children and adults. Have you figured out ways of helping couples or families navigate changing the way that they use phones when they’re together?

[Dr. Meredith David]: Well, I’ll tell you, you just hit on an important point and that is that when you’re spending time in person with someone who’s distracted by their phones, what do you do? Do you just sit there and stare at the person? Do you get up and leave? Well, our studies are consistently showing that it’s very common for a person to then pick up their own phone. So by spending time with someone who’s distracted by their phone, it leads you to actually be more likely to pick up your phone. So it’s kind of a negative cyclical effect such that when a person is phubbed, they then end up picking up their phone and they almost turn into the phubber. So it’s a negative cyclical effect. 

And even more so than just being distracted, you know, with regard to phone use and the implications that it has for face-to-face interactions and relationships, there’s a lot of studies out and a lot of data to support the fact that even just the mere presence of the phone – like having the phone, say, on the dinner table, having it there – you’re sending a signal to whoever you’re in the presence of that, “Hey, whenever my phone beeps, it’s going to be more important than you and our conversation and our interaction.” Sp the negative effects of phone use – there’s lots of negative effects. For one, being distracted by their phone, but also even just for having their phone out and just even the presence of that phone because having the presence of the phone suggests you’re less important than whatever could happen on my phone, should it beep.

[Kris Perry]: Yeah, I mean, it’s pretty well known in the sort of family therapy circles or couples therapy experts that when someone makes a bid for attention from someone that matters to them, and that bid is rejected, it does bring up feelings of upset, of sadness. And then what I think is really fascinating is almost, “Now I will do it too to protect myself, to calm myself down.” And I can imagine this now also with children, and there they are with their less developed executive functioning skills, and they’re also being modeled to. It’s very complicated, right? When this very same thing is happening among parents and kids at the same time. 

The counterpart to this – you know, the impacts on connection – is how the device and using it contributes to loneliness. And I know you worked on a study that examined relationships between social media use and loneliness in adults. What did you find?

[Dr. Meredith David]: Yes, so I’ve recently published an article. It used a nine-year longitudinal study that for nine years it tracked a sample – this was a nationally representative sample of Dutch adults. They were tracked and they reported annually across nine years. And the data shows that social media use does increase one’s experiences and feelings of loneliness.

And we went a little bit deeper than just looking at social media use and its impact on loneliness. We looked at the type of social media use, or the manner in which social media was used: whether it was used actively or passively. And there’s lots of data out there that suggests that passive use of social media – that would be like just scrolling one’s news feed, not actively commenting or posting themselves, but just passively just scrolling, just looking at everyone else’s posts without engaging – passive use of social media has more negative implications for loneliness and for our well-being than does active use of social media. So active social media use would be like actively commenting and liking posts and sharing and using social media actually to interact with others. 

And in this study, with the nine years of longitudinal data, we looked at and we tested what’s called the “active social media use hypothesis” and the “passive social media use hypothesis.” Passive social media use hypothesis is suggesting that passive use is more harmful for interactions and for one’s well-being. And the data across this nine-year longitudinal study, it does indeed support the passive social media use hypothesis. That means that using social media in a more passive way is more harmful for our well-being and it creates more heightened feelings of loneliness. We were expecting to find that active use of social media might not be too bad for folks, but the data using this nationally representative sample of individuals that were tracked over nine years – the data actually showed that even active use of social media can increase one’s feelings of loneliness and can harm their well-being.

[Kris Perry]: Nine years is a significant amount of time and it really does shed a light on passive and active use and also the way that it’s impacting our mood, maybe even our cognition, over that long. I mean, the idea that lonely people are using social media to feel less lonely, but in fact feel more lonely is really important for our listeners to understand because I don’t know that we can all identify the feelings we’re having when we’ve been on too long or for too many years, and it doesn’t matter if you’re executing certain commands or you’re engaging with the platforms, it’s still not necessarily better than doing something else. 

Another phenomenon that people often talk about when it comes to phubbing or technoference is this feeling of FOMO – that maybe if they don’t pick up their phone, they don’t have it nearby, don’t look at it often enough, they’re gonna miss out on something. Does that relate to loneliness, too, or is that its own separate phenomenon when it comes to digital media use and wellbeing?

[Dr. Meredith David]: So FOMO is related to the notion of loneliness. One thing just before we move on from the nine-year longitudinal study – we also did look at bidirectionality, which I think you were touching on, such that it’s not just that social media use leads to loneliness, but we also found vice versa, such that over the nine years, if people become more lonely, they’re more likely to use social media more. And that’s kind of related to the notion of FOMO, because if we have that fear of missing out, then we’re going to be more inclined to, say, go on social media and see what other people are doing. 

But at the same time, spending time on social media – seeing everything that everyone’s doing as they post these idealistic photos from their amazing vacations and whatnot – that can certainly create a feeling of fear of missing out for us. So it is kind of a negative cyclical effect such that social media use can create FOMO and loneliness and vice versa.

[Kris Perry]: It’s sort of a chicken and the egg situation, it sounds like. And I know you even dug into it deeper in 2020 when you did a study on FOMO and wellbeing. Is there anything else you’d like to highlight from that study?

[Dr. Meredith David]: In that one, we were using a sample of American adults with that. And in that study, we also found bidirectionality, such that people that have FOMO – they have a fear of missing out – they’re more likely to use social media even more. But yet, using social media more leads to heightened FOMO. So it gets back at that negative cyclical effect.

[Kris Perry]: It really does. It sounds like whether it’s loneliness, or FOMO, or phubbing, digital media use does seem to have unquestionable impacts on mental health and vice versa. 

I see you’re part of a group working on a consensus statement this year about social media use and adolescent mental health. Can you tell me, is there any consensus on this?

[Dr. Meredith David]: Yes, this is a major study. It involves over 120 of some of the world’s best researchers across 11 different disciplines. And in this, we’re trying to figure out, based off all the data out there from leading experts and all of their leading studies, what is the consensus with regard to adolescent mental health and smartphone use? And I can tell you that there is a consensus such that about 95% of the experts interviewed and surveyed in this agree that adolescent mental health has declined in several Western countries over the past 20 years. 

They also agree, and there is consensus, that heavy smartphone use and social media use negatively impacts our sleep and it results in sleep problems. 

Another key finding that there’s large consensus over is that smartphone use and social media use correlate with attention problems. And this kind of gets at our attention spans and how they seem to be on the decline as we go forward over time. A lot of researchers are starting to think that the shorter attention spans could be in part due to phone and social media distractions.

[Kris Perry]: I mean, so much of what you’re talking about is this negative cycle, this negative feedback loop of media use and then emotional effects that are hard that then lead to more media use. Have you thought about – do you have any advice about how to break that cycle?

[Dr. Meredith David]: I think we have to be conscious of the amount of time and the way in which we use our phones and social media. I do think, you know, smartphones and social media can be beneficial to us, but the way that the majority of people are using them – I mean, the average person checks their phone approximately 80 times a day and spends about four hours on their phone per day. And if we think about that, you know, the four hours per day that the average person is spending on their phone, what if we cut that in half and then we had two hours to do something more productive or spend those two hours interacting face to face as opposed to passively scrolling our social media sites? So a lot of the time that we’re spending on our smartphones and on social media is displacing the time that we could otherwise be spending in more meaningful interactions with our family and loved ones in face-to-face situations.

[Kris Perry]: We’ve seen data that shows that young people are receiving an average of 237 notifications a day. And that can make being intentional really hard, being more active in the rest of your life and experiencing emotions that might be more positive, those are being displaced by screen time. And I’m really glad you brought up just the quantity of time people are on and that there is a way to try to taper off, roll back, dial back your use – not go cold turkey, we all know that kids and adults all are getting some benefit from having a digital life. But when you reach that point where four hours a day, eight hours a day, you’re on your device, it’s pretty clear you’re not able to sleep or eat or interact or be physically active as much as you would be if you dial that back even one hour a day or two hours a day. I mean, digital addiction has been increasing for years and anyone with an adolescent knows that for sure because they’ve watched them be drawn to short form video platforms and those have just taken over vast swaths of their time and brain space. 

Can you tell us more about short form video addiction? I was really fascinated by your study from earlier this year that compared how features of specific video-centric platforms may affect levels of addictive use.

[Dr. Meredith David]: Yes, our data is showing that short form video platforms such as TikTok, those are more addictive forms of social media than our traditional social media platforms, like Facebook. And part of it is that with the short form videos, we feel immersed in the videos when we start looking at them and we kind of lose track of time, and we’re excited looking at these short videos. And as soon as one’s over, the next one is popping up. 

In a study, I looked at the difference between TikTok, Instagram and YouTube shorts. And what we found that TikTok relative to other short form video platforms, TikTok is the worst. And in fact, according to TikTok’s own internal documents that were revealed in a multi-state lawsuit, TikTok reported that it takes just 260 videos – which could be as quick as 35 minutes – to form a habit on the app. So there’s really no denying that these short form video platforms are addictive and they’re almost intentionally designed to be addictive. 

And with TikTok in particular, one thing that makes it so addicting is the ease of use. So TikTok is one of the easiest platforms to use. As soon as you open the app, you already have videos that are popping up. Whereas with some of the other short form video platforms, you’ll have to click once or twice before seeing a video. That’s not the case with TikTok. With TikTok, as soon as you open the app, the videos start, and it’s an endless cycle of videos that you don’t have to do anything. So it’s very easy to use, and they have personalized content that they’re showing. And perhaps the sad thing about it is that the more you use the app, the better the app gets at recommending videos for you, so in a sense, the more addicting the platform will become for you.

[Kris Perry]: Are there any other specific design features? I mean, you did a nice job of talking about, you know, the fact that they’re fed to you instantly, that then they get smarter at feeding you what you like. Are there any other design features that make TikTok in particular more addictive than the others?

[Dr. Meredith David]: You know, the majority of social media use is passive. And again, passive means you’re just kind of scrolling and looking. So knowing that the majority of social media use is passive, that means that ease of use of the platform is crucial. And TikTok is easier to use than some of these other platforms, such that as soon as you open it, you’ve got the videos and you’re more likely to just sit there and passively, like, look at the videos, look at the videos, look at the videos, and they’re tailored towards you so you’re interested in them. TikTok’s algorithm does a great job at showing individuals not only videos that are relevant to them but also videos that are exciting to them. 

And one of the most common things we see among social media users of TikTok is time distortion. So when we measure objectively how much time people have spent on the app, and then we compare that to how much time people think they have spent on the app, they very highly underestimate the amount of time that they’ve spent on the app. So time distortion is a key factor with TikTok and other short form video platforms.

[Kris Perry]: How does this addictive consumption of short-form videos relate to some of the relational things we were talking about earlier with phubbing, when people are watching video after video after video? What relationship does this kind of media use have with even the development of self-control?

[Dr. Meredith David]: Yep, so in several of my studies, I have measured self-control and also phubbing tendencies. So your tendency to phub others or be distracted by your phone in the presence of others. And the results are consistently showing that spending more time on the short form video platforms, and TikTok in particular, it lowers your self-control, and lowering your self-control and immersing you more into the app and into the videos that are shown on the platform, it ends up resulting in you being much more likely to phub those people that you’re around. 

And oftentimes we feel like these distractions by our cell phone – we feel like they don’t have an impact on those people around us, but they do. And so the biggest implication of my research in this area just says people need to be conscious and cognizant of the manner in which they’re using their phones in the presence of others. Because when you’re using your phone and scrolling TikTok or social media – it doesn’t matter really what platform it is – it’s not only impacting your own well-being, but when you’re doing it in the presence of others, it can also start to have negative implications on those people that you’re with. So that’s something I always tell people to be – even my students, I’m a professor and I tell my students, “Y’all be conscious of your cell phone use and your smart phone use, particularly when you are in the presence of other people.”

[Kris Perry]: I mean, when we talk about self-control and we talk about kids, we know that that takes a long time to develop. That you can be 18, 19, 20 years old and you’re still experiencing challenges around self-control. Your executive function isn’t fully developed. Your frontal lobe isn’t fully developed. And now for more than a decade, teens and even younger children have been in the possession of these mini computers that are feeding them short form videos that never stop. It seems like the perfect storm where you have a device and content in the hands of young people that aren’t fully capable of containing their use and parents who are really frustrated and want to intervene, want to help their kids develop, as you say, sort of more self-consciousness, more awareness of time and what else they could be doing. 

What more can parents do other than point this out? It’s one thing to say, “Hey, you’ve been on too long. Hey, you need to be more self-aware.” Have you seen any effective strategies that parents have used to either reduce the amount of time their kids are on or frankly stop using certain apps that are most likely to cause some of the worst outcomes?

[Dr. Meredith David]: Yeah, I think stopping the use of some of the most problematic apps can definitely be beneficial. There have been studies and there’s this term kind of floating around in the field right now and the term is “brain rot.” And the thought there and the data so far is showing that excessive use of these particularly short form video platforms lead to brain rot, which is a deterioration of a person’s mental or intellectual abilities and it’s a result of overconsumption of social media content. And so it’s the overconsumption of this content – it’s leading us to have shorter attention spans and less self control. 

So I would say in terms of what parents can do, know, not only consider blocking certain platforms, that are perhaps most prone to addiction and to time distortion and to overuse, but also just monitor, generally speaking, the amount of time that we’re spending on these platforms. So there’s a way on your phone, it doesn’t matter what type of smartphone you have, you can go in and you can look at the actual amount of time that you’ve spent on each particular app. And in a lot of my studies, we get participants to submit a screenshot of that data from their phone because that enables us to have objective data as to exactly how much time participants are spending on each specific app. So I would tell parents to perhaps monitor the amount of time that their children are spending on different apps and to limit the total amount of time that they’re getting to spend on social media.

[Kris Perry]: Have you seen changes in your own students over the years with self-control and attention span as social media platforms have developed more and more addictive features?

[Dr. Meredith David]: Absolutely. I think students, just like pretty much anyone out there, young people and old people these days, a lot of them are addicted. A lot of us are addicted, right? We can’t go an entire one-hour class without at least picking up our phone and looking at it. 

But one thing I have started to see is, you know, a lot of professors now have policies against cell phones. And I’ve also done research on the implications of smartphone usage in the workplace. And a lot of companies now are also starting to have smartphone policies, very similar to years back when we had smoking policies, when corporations would have policies where smokers could go to a designated area to smoke a certain time of the day. We’re starting to see similar policies like that in the workplace where people can have cell phone or smartphone breaks and that they are not allowed to look at their smartphone except in a designated place within the work environment and also at a designated time. So maybe two 15-minute breaks throughout the day and you must do it in this room.

[Kris Perry]: Wow, I mean, I hadn’t even thought about the workplace, but of course, adults are interacting and if you’re using your phone, you’re either snubbing them, phubbing them,  or maybe creating resentment in them because you’re using your device and it’s clearly personal time while someone else nearby is working. And that would create some real challenges in the workplace. So I can see why employers would start to figure out how to manage employee behavior because they can’t have everyone deciding how to do it individually. It would be impossible to manage everyone’s, you know, attention to work. 

Do you think that short form video platforms and other social media platforms can be better designed to be less addictive? And do you think there should be policies or regulations to make this happen? Or is it just on the individual to cope with the digital world that we’ve found ourselves in?

[Dr. Meredith David]: I think that the platforms definitely could be designed to be less addictive, although the creators of the majority of the platforms have done the opposite. They have intentionally designed the platforms to be addictive and to get people to spend more and more time on them. But in terms of regulation and policy, I think that it’s similar to eating behaviors, right? We all have to have self-control when it comes to a big chocolate cake there, right? And so we have to make the decision ourselves as to whether we’re going to eat one piece of the cake or if we’re going to eat the whole cake. So I’m a little hesitant to have just broad general policies and regulations against smartphone and social media usage. But I do think in certain contexts, there’s a need for it, like with regard to classrooms and the workplace. The workplace, this day and age, absolutely needs a cell phone policy because otherwise you’re going to have some individuals who are distracted for three or four hours throughout the work day and their productivity is going to be a lot lower.

I’ve done multiple studies on what we call “boss phubbing,” and that’s where you’re in a workplace meeting with your supervisor and your supervisor is distracted by his or her phone. What are the implications of that for the employee? And consistent results across studies show that if you are meeting with your supervisor and your supervisor is distracted by his or her phone, that makes you not trust your supervisor’s intentions as well. You don’t think that they have your best interest at heart. And 47% of employees that we’ve surveyed in our studies report being phubbed by their supervisors and also report not trusting and not being as engaged in their jobs. And ultimately, just being phubbed a few times can result in a significant decline in an employee’s engagement and their motivation to do well for the company.

[Kris Perry]: On a recent podcast, we had a guest, Abe Flanagan, that talked about students and learning self-control and having the responsibility of doing that in the classroom and focusing on it as part of being in the classroom. The disappointing part of that effort on his part was that it doesn’t happen. It really was clear to him that the devices had to be put away, that they couldn’t really manage that gray area, that in between, “I have it, but it has to be put away.” And it sounds like even in the workplace, these similar kinds of impacts and phenomenon and emotional struggles that are happening at home and at school are happening at work. Of course they are. We’re all human and we’re all carrying these powerful devices around in our pockets that are based on a business model that wants us to look, wants us to stay on as long as possible so that platforms can continue to buy and sell our data and remain profitable. And when you remember what the business model is and how effective they are, you realize that no matter where we are, whether we’re at school, home, or at work, we’re going to have to struggle with this self-management challenge that these devices have presented. I really appreciate that you’ve brought all of those elements into your answers. 

Has your work affected how much you use social media or how you use your device in front of other people, whether it’s at work or at home?

[Dr. Meredith David]: It absolutely has, and I try to practice what I preach in that I am cognizant of my phone usage in the presence of others. So it’s very rare that I will be at a meeting and even have my phone on the table. Because like I said previously, the data shows that you don’t even have to be on your phone actively, but even just having your phone sitting there on the table is signaling to whoever you’re with that whenever your phone beeps, it’s going to be more important than they are. So yeah, I try to be cognizant of my phone use. I try not to even have my phone out when I  am spending time with others. 

But we always will have instances when we might need to be, say, on call. If you have a sick child and you’re waiting for a call maybe from the doctor. There’s all sorts of instances like that. And that’s fine. But when situations like that arise, I always make a conscious effort to tell the folks I’m with, “Hey y’all, I’m really sorry but I’ve got to keep my phone on because I’m expecting a call from my doctor or my child’s doctor.” So we should be upfront with regard to it instead of just having the phone sitting out there. Let folks know, “Look, I hate to be rude. I hate to have my phone out but I’m expecting this one phone call.” So be open and transparent and let folks know when you absolutely have to have the phone out. 

Otherwise, keep the phone in your bag and focus on the face-to-face interactions that you have. You know, I also think aside from policies – we talked a lot about implementing policies and regulations – I feel like even more than that, if we could start instilling a culture of just respect and just valuing the time and the thoughts and the opinions of others and respect that time that you spend with others face to face and I think it’s a bit of a cultural thing. Like, it’s rude to be distracted by our phones, right? But we all do it so much that we’ve almost normalized it such that it’s almost accepted because it’s so commonplace. And I wish we could get back to the days where it wasn’t normalized because it shouldn’t be. We should actually be focusing on our face-to-face interactions when we’re in the presence of others.

[Kris Perry]: Yeah, I could not agree more. I mean, I keep trying to come up with clever ways to distract myself and I’ve done things like leave things out, like not finish a puzzle or leave a magazine open or leave a game out so that it reminds me that I could also be doing that, or I could encourage the other person to come do that with me so that it’s not sort of like, there’s no replacement, there’s no obvious physical reminder of how to do something else and even say, “Hey, how about in five minutes we go do this other thing together instead?” And I’m always looking for people’s creative solutions for jogging their memory of what they used to do before they were on their phone all the time. 

Has there been an aha moment in your work or career that shaped how you think about what you wanted to research?

[Dr. Meredith David]: I wouldn’t say an aha moment, I think it’s just been more gradual. You know, I started out looking at how our relationships impact our well-being and how our interactions impact our well-being. Then I kind of got into the domain of technology and smartphone usage and it was very surprising to me to start uncovering the fact that, you know, the purpose of smartphones is to help us connect better with others. But ironically, they somehow have done the opposite. Instead of bringing us closer together with other humans, they’ve actually isolated us from those very people that are closest to us. The role of technology and of smartphones in our everyday lives – we thought phones when they first came out, would help us better connect and better communicate with others, but it’s actually had the opposite effect.

[Kris Perry]: I mean, you’ve engaged in studies that were nine years long, where you have looked at hundreds of people. You are a professor at a university where you’ve worked with hundreds of students over many, many years. You’ve seen at quite a large scale the impact of devices on relationships. And you’ve even narrowed that study into what’s going on in schools and in homes and at work. And across the board, what you’re seeing is disruption to attachments and even worse, increased anxiety and depression and time not well spent because the device has overtaken the rest of our free time. And I’m just so glad that we were able to talk about it and that large of a scale. These are not small studies. These are large studies. And we should really think about how much impact they’re having now that it’s been more than a decade. 

And knowing all that you know, what is one piece of advice you would give to parents and caregivers to help children lead a healthy life in a digital world?

[Dr. Meredith David]: I would tell parents to be cognizant of their own phone use in the presence of their children because they’re setting the example. So I see so many times where parents are using their phones and so then the kid’s looking at them, and then to entertain the child, they go ahead and give the child a form of technology to be using and playing with. So I think that parents have to be cognizant of their own use as well as their child’s use. 

But I think establishing smartphone-free zones, like in the house, can be very effective manners of managing the outcomes of social media use. So for example, maybe at the dinner table, that can be a smartphone-free zone where we don’t use our phones at all when we’re having dinner. Or maybe when we’re out at a family movie night, we don’t even take our phones with us, perhaps. So I think smartphone-free zones can be very helpful in households. But I hate to say it, but I think the parents need to  follow what they’re preaching to their kids as well. And they need to be cognizant and try to minimize their own smartphone use.

[Kris Perry]: Many thanks to Dr. Meredith David for a thoughtful research driven discussion. Today we heard how everyday phone habits can affect attention and trust in relationships, why loneliness and social media can fuel each other, and how short form video design choices drive engagement in ways that matter for self control, wellbeing, and even the perception of time. We also touched on practical steps parents and educators can take to model and encourage device use that builds real world connection. For links to Dr. David’s studies and related resources, visit childrenandscreens.org and check the show notes. 

If you found this episode helpful, please follow, rate, and share Screen Deep so more families and educators can find evidence-based guidance. Until next time, I’m Kris Perry. Thanks for listening.